Author Topic: Spragged..!!  (Read 3036 times)

Miti

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Spragged..!!
« on: August 23, 2014, 11:08:59 PM »
Guess what I'm doing tomorrow..??

Grrrr.....



Working off some angst by designing cynical patches always works for me...

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

R3SC

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2014, 05:45:40 PM »
I like it Jeff!

Sadly, it's true!!

Pete.

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2014, 11:23:04 AM »
Silver lining.... There will soon be a new "Replacing the Sprag" page, with some lovely photos, on the HOC website, technical section...

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #3 on: October 04, 2014, 08:35:43 PM »
Here y'go folks... First cut of a "changing the sprag" page for the website:

CHANGING THE SPRAG

Please feel free to comment on this, particularly if you spot any actual errors.
(BTW: No. I won't be adding the bit about leaning the bike against your maiden aunt or a handy ice-cream van to avoid draining the oil)

Cheers

Jeff


1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #4 on: August 16, 2015, 08:54:39 PM »
Aaaargh..!!!

Spragged again..!!!  Fek, fek, fek..!!!!

If anyone has details of where to obtain the sprag cage element (BWX131003 (4C), REGP 4972 (4C), or DC4972 (4C)) I would be VERY much obliged...

Thanks in advance

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Pete D

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2015, 10:31:00 AM »
Jeff

If you need the part in a hurry to make the most of the decent weather, whilst one you source is on order, I have one on the shelf (was delivered with the bike, so no idea of provenance though, I am afraid).

You are most welcome to have mine and send me your replacement when it comes in.....

Cheers

Pete

Rob B

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2015, 11:39:10 AM »
Pete, Jeff,

The provenance is excellent. Me!

I bought them from Ringspann a few years ago.  RINGSPANN (UK) Ltd. 3 Napier Road, Bedford, U.K, MK41 0QS     

2   3677.049.602.000000            4      £31.93           £127.72
   BWX1310003

Cheers,

Robert
RB

1980 Jota - 1982 V1000 - 1985 SFC 1000
1993 907IE - 1995 Daytona Super III
1960 Perplexed Wife

Pete D

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2015, 12:24:33 PM »
Aha......

I feel even more comfortable with 'lending' my spare out then!

Dave Snr

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2015, 03:15:17 PM »
Hi Jeff,

Got my sprags from Eriks - they have the Renold version REGP4972(4C)-REN.
Eriks have depots all over the UK - very useful off the shelf supplier of O rings when you do your Socks etc. Eriks have a depot in Glasgow, so worth checking if they have them in stock.
In 2013 they cost me £50 each plus delivery.

My unused spare is also available should you need it.

I suspect most Hesketh owners have a spare sprag.

Dave H

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2015, 07:11:21 PM »
Many thanks Guys...  I've taken DaveH (Snr) up on his kind offer as I saw his e-mail before logging on here - Thanks also Pete D.  Nice to know that the Club is still attracting supportive members...

Looks like I may need to get the i/d of the starter race measured as mine may be a 'slack' one...

Next up is a check of the accel pumps in the carbs as they may be the culprit - too much juice causing back-firing...

More, as it happens...

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Rob B

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2015, 10:48:31 PM »
Hello Jeff,

You mentioned the accelerator pumps maybe causing a backfire. I remember Mick saying when I bought my first HESKETH in 1983; NEVER touch the throttle when starting a HESKETH from cold, only use the choke. I have seen people twisting the throttle repeatedly before starting the bike instead of using the choke and I personally think that is a recipe for disaster. Also of course it washes away any residual trace of lubrication from the top end. I don't touch the throttle until the bike is running and ready to come off choke and idle.

Anything less than a fully charged fresh battery is more likely the cause of a good "spragging". Just for interest, if you measure the voltage across the coils, the nominal 6 to 6.5 volt in series when running actually drops well below 4 volts whilst the starter motor is cranking and so the spark is already quite pathetic when you actually need it most. With anything less than a fully charged battery, this volt drop can result in no spark whatsoever, until the moment you release the starter button. Then you instantly get two big fat sparks on both plugs at the same time with no regard to the actual crank position.

There is a modification which is next on my list and requires some searching arround for the right kind of relay and a little head scratching with the non-existent wiring diagram. What this does is to energise a relay triggered from the starter relay so that the coils switch from series to parallel for the brief moment that the starter motor is actually turning. Then, instead of the two six volt coils operating on less than 4 volts, they actually have nearly eight volts. The relay returns the coils back to 6 volt with a series circuit again the moment the starter button is released. I must get round to trying this one day....

RB
RB

1980 Jota - 1982 V1000 - 1985 SFC 1000
1993 907IE - 1995 Daytona Super III
1960 Perplexed Wife

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2015, 01:53:28 PM »
This Mod Rob..?



A 12Volt DPDT relay isn't hard to find, but one with 6.3mm Lucar terminals that'll be 'plug 'n play with the wiring on the Hesketh is...  This one is a bit OTT with regard to the contact current spec, but it's just what Dr Mick ordered in all other respects...



Other relays may require 'flying leads' to be soldered into place prior to connection into the bike's wiring...

I've not had any trouble with the bike backfiring until I re-did the silencer acoustic wadding... I've been advised to check the carbs, ignition timing and silencer joints... Looks like another rebuild on the cards... ;)

Jeff
« Last Edit: August 18, 2015, 04:36:47 PM by Miti »
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Rob B

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2015, 08:42:28 AM »
Awesome,

Thanks ever so much Jeff. I will modify the Vampire now as it is already full of relays for horn, high/low beam, daytime running light etc. The Suzuki GS1000 switchgear is OK but getting old and was never designed for direct connection. My headlight is massively improved.

I met your mate from Wareham last night at the Bugad bike night which was great. Good turnout of bikes and a beautiful evening. My V1000 was running on song and I now know it is at least as quick a Tiger 900 but not as quick as an MV Brutale!

RB

RB

1980 Jota - 1982 V1000 - 1985 SFC 1000
1993 907IE - 1995 Daytona Super III
1960 Perplexed Wife

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2015, 07:59:22 PM »
I met your mate from Wareham last night at the Bugad bike night which was great. Good turnout of bikes and a beautiful evening. My V1000 was running on song and I now know it is at least as quick a Tiger 900 but not as quick as an MV Brutale!

Great!  Was Tink (Neil) on his big Yamaha Warrior then..?  Good to see he's enjoying his return to 2-wheels (he was on three for a good few years after a hip replacement).

I'd have been more than a little surprised if you could keep up with the MV - VERY fast bike indeed.  Nice to hear your V1000 is running well - They're great fun when they're going well, eh..?

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Miti

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Re: Spragged..!!
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2015, 11:04:29 AM »
A couple of weeks ago, this was discussed...

This Mod Rob..?



A 12Volt DPDT relay isn't hard to find, but one with 6.3mm Lucar terminals that'll be 'plug 'n play with the wiring on the Hesketh is...  This one is a bit OTT with regard to the contact current spec, but it's just what Dr Mick ordered in all other respects...



Other relays may require 'flying leads' to be soldered into place prior to connection into the bike's wiring...

I've not had any trouble with the bike backfiring until I re-did the silencer acoustic wadding... I've been advised to check the carbs, ignition timing and silencer joints... Looks like another rebuild on the cards... ;)

Jeff

Yesterday, we were at this point:



I ordered the relay based on the picture the vendor provided... 1 digit out on the part number and you get a PCB mount version, not the spade terminal one pictured... Ho Hum...

So, I spent a while soldering flying leads to the realy (may have worked out for the best in the end...)

Tank, off, covers lifted and there are the coils...  I spent AGES getting the lower coil out of the bracket on the bike to swap the terminals about - the mod calls for three wires on the +ve side and only one on the -ve... PLEASE don't do this... The terminals are pre-formed as pairs and you can't do what I had planned...  I put it all back together and made up a short 2:1 adaptor to enable the 2rd wire to be added...  After a couple of evenings and a few hours yesterday, the bike was back together with the 'Coil Relay Mod' installed...



Relay held onto frame tube with cable tie... Might subject it to too many vibes and I'll be looking for a better solution than this...



Wiring from relay crosses frame and doubles back to coil terminals, ensuring that there was enough slack to effect the connections... The coil earth is secured under one of the harness/frame earth bolts and the coil feed follows the harness along the frame, down past the battery and onto a 6.3mm spade affixed to the starter lead terminal (so it 'goes live' as the starter is activated).

I put it all back together and rolled it outside for a try...  It back-fired...   >:(

Right..!!  All it's done is back-fire, ever since I re-packed the silencers... They were WAY too loud without the packing and don't seem to work at all with it, so they've had their last chance..!!

I pulled the shorty silencers (pity, they're beautiful on the bike) and re-fitted the OE system...

An hour later, I tried again...  She started, but not nicely... ran for a few secs, dropped onto one and stalled... Wouldn't start up after that...

I've either wired up the relay incorrectly, or she's developed a new fault...  Deep Joy..!!

I'm off to the rugby today (Scotland/Italy) and that'll help prevent serious hammer rash to the bike...

Back to the fray tomorrow... Grrrrr....!!

Jeff



1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)