Author Topic: IGNITION COIL WIRING  (Read 7048 times)

Pete D

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IGNITION COIL WIRING
« on: August 01, 2015, 07:58:15 PM »
Chaps

I think I have got to the root of the problem of why my recently-acquired bike runs so poorly…..It is only firing on the rear cylinder (and probably the reason why the oil that I drained out smelt so much of petrol.....).  Having now got the tank and infill panels off....what a PITA that was...I found that both wires from the ignition amp lead to the uppermost coil, along with the ‘double' orange/white wires from the loom.  The connections currently are: ‘double’ orange/white (negative from the owner's manual) and white/yellow on the same post on the top coil (rear cylinder), with the white/black on a separate post.

The other 2 black and yellow wires from the loom (again, negative I believe) lead to the bottom coil (which is the one for the front cylinder), but are currently wired to separate posts.  My question is, which coil should each ignition amp wire feed and to which coil post, and which coils should have the orange/white and the black/yellow?  If anyone has a photo, it might help the hard of thinking....me!

I’m afraid that the wiring diagram in the manual is very little help!

Regards

Pete

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2015, 08:30:22 PM »
Having put my glasses on, I have now identified which are the positive and negative posts on the coils.....

Cheers

Pete

Rob B

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2015, 09:13:37 PM »
Hello Pete,

I just replied by email. The coils are 6v in series and both cylinders fire together on the "wasted spark" principal. The Black/Yellow wires are actually just one wire which is the series link from positive of one coil to negative of the other. Hence, it doesn't matter which coil you connect to which cylinder. Once you have checked the coils are wired correctly, the easiest test is to put a fresh plug in each cap, earth them properly and then, with the ignition turned on, flick the RUN switch on and off repeatedly. You will note that every time you switch to OFF, both plugs will spark at the same time as the coils discharge together.

Good luck,

Robert
1982 Hesketh V1000    
Laverdas: 1980 Jota     1985 SFC1000
Triumphs: 1994 900 Daytona Super III   1995 900 Sprint
1996 900 Speed Triple 
1999 1200 Daytona Special Edition

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2015, 09:18:25 PM »
Hi Robert

You are most kind.....all clear now....

What a fantastically supportive site!

Regards

Pete

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #4 on: August 02, 2015, 01:31:45 PM »
Now running on 2 again, though the sparks are a bit weak.  I have some iridium plugs on the way.

Gave me a shock by the front pot catching and then 'running away' up to 5k RPM.....tank and panels off again to note that the front carb cable run was somewhat awry....corrected that, to be faced with the same snag......carb off to find that the piston had jammed fully open....corrected that only to find it runs on 2 then drops the front cylinder at random.  Plugs may cure it (I probably had a duff few in the bag), but replacement coils may be next.....

Well, I bought it to fettle!

Miti

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #5 on: August 02, 2015, 03:25:12 PM »
I had some problems with my V1000's rear cylinder when I first got her... Endlessly 'dropping out' and frequently flooding...

Turned out to be a mix of cable and carb adjustment - especially the float heights...

The only problem I found with the ignition system was the ancient HT leads and caps... I fitted high quality silicone leads and haven't had a problem since.

BTW:  There is a wiring schematic for the ignition system on Pg 3 of the Workshop Manual.

HTH

Jeff
1974 Triumph T160 Trident (New Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Red Sport)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Production/Development Engine)

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #6 on: August 02, 2015, 05:16:41 PM »
Thanks Jeff

Leads and caps will be my next port of call; will get the carbs ultrasonically cleaned and rebuilt over the winter. Good news is that the tank is solid, though a whole load of surface rust underneath. Rubbed down and painted with rust eater until I spray the base in winter.

Think I might need to source some infill panels in the longer-term; the 'connections' with the oil filler cover are fairly ropey.

Just for future reference, are the coils off something common, or Hesketh specific?

I'm rather enjoying the challenge so far.

Cheers

Pete
« Last Edit: August 02, 2015, 05:21:04 PM by Pete D »

Miti

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #7 on: August 02, 2015, 06:45:53 PM »
Think I might need to source some infill panels in the longer-term; the 'connections' with the oil filler cover are fairly ropey.

The tank "underskirts" are held together and the oil cooler cover is held onto them by self-tapping screws and "speed-clips".



I HATE these things.   >:(

They're prone to stripping, breaking and just coming loose and I've replaced as many of those that were fitted to my bike as possible... I've used rivnuts, nylocs and wellnuts (my personal favourites) and nothing has come adrift so far...





And, I also took a leaf from Mr Sleeman's book and ditched the underskirt panels.  I've fitted mesh inserts and a separate bracket to secure the oil cooler cover...

Just for future reference, are the coils off something common, or Hesketh specific?

They're Lucas 17M6 coils:



They can still be bought new, or uprated alternatives can be bought ('Tri-Spark' comes to mind). To be honest, they're pretty reliable and shouldn't need changing unless they've suffered physical damage or an ignition unit fault that has overheated them...

HTH

Jeff
1974 Triumph T160 Trident (New Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Red Sport)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Production/Development Engine)

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2015, 07:26:33 PM »
Afraid it is the plastics that have failed (split).....those wretched fasteners for the self-tappers are fine!

Thanks for the info re the coils; I must admit that I am hoping the new plugs will do the trick.

I think I may follow you re mesh.  Managed to 'set about' a fair bit of lifting plate on the frame, but having a think about how to make it perfect again.....strip and re coat...

I have time.......no intention of parting with it!

Cheers

Pete

Miti

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2015, 11:31:02 PM »
Managed to 'set about' a fair bit of lifting plate on the frame, but having a think about how to make it perfect again.....strip and re coat...

That's a problem... You'll be aware that the frame is nickel-plated.  Normal refurb work on plated metals would involve, as you say, stripping and re-plating...  But the Hesketh frame is 'sifbronze' welded.  I'm unsure of the actual composition of the alloy used to do this, (I'm sure someone will jump in with the correct detail) but anecdotal evidence suggests that there is a percentage of nickel in that alloy.  So, when a Hesketh frame is de-plated, some of the nickel in the bronzed joints 'leaches' out of those joints, causing them to weaken.  :(

There is at least one current member who attempted re-nickeling of his frame... One of the engine mounts came off a front downtube shortly afterwards...  :o

I'm not saying that refurb is impossible, only that ALL the factors should be taken into account before commencing work...

I went with a black frame...  WAY more practical and much cheaper to refurb... Could be a low-cost option for you too...?

HTH

Miti
1974 Triumph T160 Trident (New Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Red Sport)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Production/Development Engine)

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2015, 02:23:53 PM »
Jeff

Very interesting - no intention of risking weakening the frame.  Hence, I may go for the black option - did you powder coat or spray?

Regards

Pete

Miti

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2015, 08:26:36 PM »
Powder Coat: (More here:)



Frame, swing-arm, rear axle clamps, seat mount and the mesh 'infill' plates I've made up - £150...

The place I use is ESP Powder Coating in Glasgow.  The proprietor; Trevor, is a biker and has been in the business for decades... I get no bother with bearing seats that need cleaning out and he blanks off those large threads that are too big to find an old bolt to protect the threads with...  :D

Best thing is to find a place near to you who has similar credentials and a recommendation is as good as 'cash in the bank'.

Hope that helps

Jeff
1974 Triumph T160 Trident (New Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Red Sport)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Production/Development Engine)

Dave Snr

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #12 on: August 05, 2015, 01:00:23 PM »
Hi Pete,

Wise words from Jeff on the risks of re-nickeling a frame.

Powder coating is certainly the better and safer option.

Club member Andy Smith is about 60 miles away from you in Chandlers Ford.
Andy had a frame break and did a repair followed by powder coating in silver.
I saw Andy's bike last year at Silverstone and it's a very nice finish and at first glance looks like nickel.

I assume Andy had it done locally so let me know if you want his contact details to find out who did the coating.

Dave H

Pete D

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2015, 10:30:09 AM »
Hi Dave

Yes please re the contact details.  Think I will ride 'as is' for a year or so, before conducting the major strip and refurb though.  The flaking is not really obvious, but I am renowned as being rather picky when it comes to bikes.....

I have yet to ride it reliably on 2 cylinders - it's rather gutless as a single!  Hopefully, the Iridium plugs will have arrived by now (I work away from home).....so I'll test at the weekend.  The front pot may be running a bit rich too, but I haven't had it running long enough to be sure...particularly as it spent a considerable time without firing (due to the incorrectly-wired coils) and flooded due to the stuck throttle slide....

Cheers

Pete

Miti

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Re: IGNITION COIL WIRING
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2015, 08:34:06 PM »
Still a GREAT idea to check those float heights before riding in earnest...

Jeff
1974 Triumph T160 Trident (New Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Red Sport)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Production/Development Engine)