Author Topic: Improved Breather/Oil Separator  (Read 1830 times)

Miti

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Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« on: April 21, 2013, 08:29:13 PM »
The oil separator on my bike was a simple tubular design constructed from two tubes slipped one inside the other and welded and a lump of wire wool held into the larger tube with a kind of "star washer"

The breather pipe had been touching the rear header and was heat damaged...  I've seen other Heskeths with an "AC" type oil separator fitted, so I sourced some suitable hoses and and "AC" type separator...

Took a couple of hours to get the hoses cut to length accurately, but I'm quite pleased with the end result:



Still close to the rear header, but not touching any more...



Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Tig

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2013, 05:54:56 PM »
Hi Jeff

That is pretty much as my green bike was, not sure how many are running this seperator, how is it running so far ?

Miti

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2013, 10:09:25 PM »
Bike is ready to go and will be re-taxed tomorrow (1st May).  I've taken some trouble to ensure the carbs are properly balanced and, although I've not had her out since the mod, the engine seems to be revving beautifully...

Just the carbs?  Or easier breathing too..?  I don't really mind as long as it works... ;)

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Miti

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 11:38:44 AM »
Well, after completing about 200 miles on the bike since I incorporated this mod, the only difficulty was that the oil leak I was hoping to stop has persisted...

I loosened off the hose clip, pulled the lower pipe off the engine spigot and examined everything very closely... There is a cylinder of very hard plastic around the spigot, which I assumed had been added to increase the pipe diameter... I pried this off and, when examined, I found oil in-between the spigot and this cylinder, so hot oil is getting into the gap and also getting out of it too...

There is no way that an ordinary hose clip could constrict this hard plastic enough to provide a total seal twixt that and the spigot, so I broke out the junior hacksaw...  I sawed a slot lengthways through the plastic cylinder... It can now be closed up tightly around the spigot...  I fully de-greased all the parts and replaced the cylinder around the spigot, adding a smear of silicone sealant in-between the parts and especially down the new join line...  I replaced the pipe and tightened up the hose clip...

150 miles later, this joint is now oil tight and the oil separator appears to be working perfectly - not a sign of oil on the front air filter anyway...

That's one suspect joint fixed... Now to check out what's happening with the joints between the 'socks' and the cyl-heads and crank-cases... Has anyone ever fully sealed these troublesome joints..?  My V1000 is fully EN-10'd so there no oil pressure running through the socks, but they're both still leaking... Not horribly, but enough to notice nonetheless...

Bloody Heskeths...  ;D

Miti
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Mr B

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2016, 12:49:04 PM »
Hello Miti, just wondering where you purchased the AC type breather/filter unit and the slightly angled rubber tube please? Mine has been melted by the rear exhaust pipe and I can't seem to find one on the internet and I'm guessing it came off something common like a Mini or Austin Maxi !
Many thanks....Roger.

Rob B

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2016, 03:14:23 PM »
Hello Jeff,

Yes, fully cured the leaks between old style socks and small-fin heads - as fitted to the original bikes from Daventry - without any need for silicone snot. For info, the later Hesleydon bikes with the big fin heads are fully redesigned in this area and don't leak anyway, unless really badly assembled...

Original bikes:
As you know, the socks have to float freely of the cylinder head to allow for thermal expansion. Otherwise they simply get ripped off their base gaskets with the crankcase as soon as the heads and barrels get hot and "grow". The heads are separated from the socks by use of spacers (collars) around the attachment screws that are a few thou deeper than the thickness of the back face of the socks, so the socks can't be rigidly clamped to the cylinder heads but still compress the O-rings sufficiently. This doesn't work because oil can still escape past the spacers and poor out of the back of the sock. I have modified this with flanged fixing screws with additional O-rings. The second leakage point is at the small O-rings for the lower bucket chamber drains which are recessed into the cylinder heads. These O-ring recesses are OK for stopping the little O-rings from expanding but they do nothing to stop them from collapsing into the drainage holes. So that is exactly what they do. I stopped this by fitting small bore copper rings inside the O-rings so now they can't expand or collapse. The result is no oil leaks from around the socks and no silicone sealant.

Hope this helps.

RB
1980 Laverda Jota     
1982 Hesketh V1000    
1985 Laverda SFC1000
1995 Triumph 900 Daytona Super III   
1999 Triumph 1200 Daytona Special Edition

Miti

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2016, 07:36:27 PM »
Hello Miti, just wondering where you purchased the AC type breather/filter unit and the slightly angled rubber tube please? Mine has been melted by the rear exhaust pipe and I can't seem to find one on the internet and I'm guessing it came off something common like a Mini or Austin Maxi !
Many thanks....Roger.

Hi Roger;

You're right that it's old car tech.  I first saw the mod fitted to machines Mick B had in the workshop at Turweston and added the separator to my list of 'bits to buy' before I actually owned a V1000 (I know... It's an illness...  ::) )

I sourced mine at an autojumble stall at the Great Scottish Transport Extravaganza at Glamis Castle.  It's a once a year event, with no guarantees on availability, so little use to you...

This Ebay seller has one left...  I couldn't say if it's exactly the same part as there may be differences in hose sizes, etc...



I sourced the hoses at Hose World (of course..!!)  Check the 'automotive and marine' section.  I used reinforced EDPM hose with a max spec temp of 130oC.  It's been on the bike over two years now and seems to be working well... It's available in a number of sizes, so I would source the separator before the hoses...

Hope that helps...

Jeff

 
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Miti

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2016, 07:56:31 PM »
"... This doesn't work because oil can still escape past the spacers and poor out of the back of the sock. I have modified this with flanged fixing screws with additional O-rings."

I think I can visualise what you're describing, but I'm thinking that the additional o-rings would squeeze out from under the flanged heads when fully tightened...  I'm also thinking that there are opportunities for oil to leak between the fixing screws and the spacers and between the spacers and the 'sock'.  Did you fit seals between each..?

The second leakage point is at the small O-rings for the lower bucket chamber drains which are recessed into the cylinder heads. These O-ring recesses are OK for stopping the little O-rings from expanding but they do nothing to stop them from collapsing into the drainage holes. So that is exactly what they do. I stopped this by fitting small bore copper rings inside the O-rings so now they can't expand or collapse. The result is no oil leaks from around the socks and no silicone sealant.

Paul Sleeman spotted this too and my own bike suffers from the small o-rings collapsing into the drainage holes...  Paul's solution was to insert short lengths of thin wall steel tube into the drainage holes, such that they extend through the o-rings and through the sock, ending in the void around the camchain run...  This was supposed to prevent the o-rings collapsing and to bring the oil out of the head and across the head/sock joint, draining straight down into the crankcase...  I think this mod is pretty much the same as what you've done with the copper 'rings'

Unfortunately, the drainage holes in my heads aren't concentrically aligned with the holes in the socks, so there is an overlap which prevents the tubes being fitted.   I'll address this... one day  ;)

Jeff
1975 Triumph Trident 750 (New Project)
1980 Yamaha XS1100 (Midnight Special)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Trike Project)
1981 Yamaha XS1100 Sport (Reg'd 1985)
1982 Hesketh V1000 (Pre-Production Engine)

Rob B

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2016, 08:32:52 PM »
Hello Jeff,

The flanged Allan screws I got madchined have a groove for the O-ring.

The copper rings I used are of course just cut from the end of a small bore copper tube which I did also because of the misalignment with the drain holes. I then laboriously filed them down so they are ten thou thinner than the cross section of O-rings. The tubes that Paul fitted are better if you have the machine shop facilities that he has access to... Which I don't! I should also add that I spent about two years rebuilding my V1000 engine so not exactly a commercially viable operation :-)

RB
1980 Laverda Jota     
1982 Hesketh V1000    
1985 Laverda SFC1000
1995 Triumph 900 Daytona Super III   
1999 Triumph 1200 Daytona Special Edition

Mr B

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Re: Improved Breather/Oil Separator
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2016, 01:51:45 PM »
Many thanks Jeff, a great help.